Doubting Bro

Joined

• started 10 topics
• posted 2,130 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Doubting Bro

• 
  43

  Observations since the book study arrangement finished

  by truthseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  does anyone have any interesting observations since the book study arrangement in private homes finished?.

  are jws happier with the extra night off?

  do they miss the book study?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doubting Bro

  I still think the primary reason is what Billy said, a lack of brothers (I know of lots of MS who had their own study group and that was unheard of 15 years ago) to conduct. If you think the average JW is happy with one less meeting night, the elders I know were giddy about only having to conduct maybe once a month (less in congos with large BOEs).

  While I did see things go off the beaten path occassionally, the current "generation" of JWs are not all that inclined to get too deep into the material (in my experience). I always made it a practice of finishing a little early, especially on goodie night.

  As ynot stated, I think the local congregations are becoming less close and not having the separate BS groups is a big reason for that. While EVERY single JW that I know is thrilled to have the night off from meetings, many would have rather seen the TMS/MS cancelled and the book study groups continued.

  I think the WTS may have underestimated the social aspect and feeling of closeness the CBS gave to the congregations. Of course, the horse is out of the barn. They would have an extremely difficult time reinstating the extra meeting night. Maybe they knew it would be demoralizing but felt like they didn't have a choice. That meeting was typically the least attended but a sentimental favorite.
• 
  22

  End of Pioneer Assist - real reasons?

  by freddo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i reckon that the sentence at the start of paragraph two of the letter to elders that says "in view of the good results and for other practical reasons, it is now felt that the pioneer assist others program has accomplished its purpose.

  " (italics mine) is legal cya because if a pioneer goofs up and injures (while driving?

  ) or molests an assistee then there is a direct link to the wts because a pioneer is society appointed.. follow the dollars ....

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doubting Bro

  MLE, I agree that the program always seemed a bit demeaning. If I recall correctly, the original intent was to help those who were on the cusp of becoming pioneers. It turned into (at least places I've been) a program for those who were low hour/irregular pubs. I saw a couple of reactions from pioneers who were part of the program: 1) Wanna be elders who looked at the program as an opportunity to "shepherd" ie tell others what to do. Generally this group were women who wanted the authority but realized this program was as close as they were ever going to get in the JW system. My MIL is in this category and 2) Complete lack of interest and in many cases outright refusal to participate.

  The folks that were being "assisted" usually looked at it as if they weren't good enough to be "assisted" by the elders and were being pawned off onto the pioneers (usually the case). I know more that refused to be in the program than actually accepted.

  Interesting theory regarding liability. As Sir82 mentioned, the WTS doesn't directly appoint regular pioneers anymore and I'm sure that was because of liability. But, I think you'd be hard pressed to make the liability connection based on this program. I remember there was a case in FL a few years ago involving a auto accident while in FS. The WTS was able to wiggle out because the plaintiffs weren't able to make the case that the individual pubs were actual agents of the WTS. I think there is enough information to make the case because:

  1 - Elders are appointed directly by the WTS and lead FS groups including where and when to meet and where to work. COs also fall into this category.

  2 - Individual congregation territory boundaries are determined by the branch.

  3 - Meeting parts demonstrating what to say are given on a regular basis. Suggestions on how to present the sales materials are also given via the KM.

  4 - Time and pubs are reported back to the WTS.

  5 - The WTS designates that one Sat a month be devoted to making bible studies (showing that the individual pubs are not just doing this on their own).

  6 - The WTS determines who can be a "publisher" and who can not. The local BOE actually enforces written WTS direction.

  7- The lack of this type of "volunteering" impacts how the individual is viewed and utilized in the local congregation and at WTS sponsored events like DCs.

  Sorry for the sidetrack.

  Is the WTS easing up? I just don't see it. I think GB 2.0 is going to be every bit hardline as GB 1.0. Remember Jaracz handpicked many of the younger ones. The next year will tell the tale.
• 
  22

  For all those back at College / University

  by cantleave in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how are you doing?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doubting Bro

  Recently finished my BA in Business. Graduated with honors and in my early 40s.
• 
  60

  Why are you here, Bane?

  by dgp in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was wondering.

  not that i have anyone in mind (except for bane).

  what motivates an active and zealous jehovah's witness to come to a website like this one and insult everyone for being apostates, et cetera?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doubting Bro

  out scripturize them at every turn.

  That may be one of the funniest expressions I've ever read on this board.
• 
  28

  Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-18-10 WT Study (REACH OUT)

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  comments.

  comments.

  you sow with a view to the spirit.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doubting Bro

  today - If he was an adult convert, having a nonJW (I can get myself to type unbelieving) wife would not hold him back in the least. If he was a born-in who married outside the organization, then he may not be viewed as "exemplary" and that could hold him back or at least make it more difficult.

  onemore - I haven't heard anything about the materials (other than a new Flock book) or program of the new elders school scheduled for the fall. I assumed it would be similar to what they had for the COBOEs. Any specifics you could share would be great. And, congrats on stepping "aside". That awkward feeling that all eyes are upon you and the comments about how much your parts are missed will go away soon enough. I'll bet you feel as if a giant weight as been lifted!!
• 
  28

  Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-18-10 WT Study (REACH OUT)

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  comments.

  comments.

  you sow with a view to the spirit.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doubting Bro

  Blondie,

  Glad you're feeling a little better. Please know that your efforts are appreciated!

  Regarding the article, it's clear how desperate the WTS is for men to take on the low level management jobs. In the congregation I attend, there are more ex-elders than current elders. And, NONE of those guys (myself included) would EVER consider doing the job again. And I think the majority of them still believe the WTS has the "truth" but they just were burned by politics or burned out. The MS pipeline has a few that will likely be appointed one day (if they last that long) but it's slim pickings.

  I do like how the WT article tries to guilt guys into "reaching out", subtly insulting them by acting as if the reason they don't want to be an elder is because they're not "spiritual". However, I don't think the guilt trip will work on folks that were once elders/ms because they've seen behind the curtain.

  I also think its so funny that for years the WTS pointed to the Catholic priest shortage as a sign that Bablyon the Great had fallen and yet now they're facing the very same problem!!! I know of several congregations that have been combined primarily due to a shortage of elders. Look for that trend to continue, despite articles such as these.
• 
  34

  A rough estimate of how many are still in for family or loved ones?

  by dgp in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm sure it's impossible to know for sure but, in people's opinions, what would be a rough estimate of how many people are still in because of fear of losing loved ones?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doubting Bro

  I am as well and often wonder how many sitting around me at the meetings or at the DC are doing the same thing. I look for little clues like not signing or not bowing their heads during prayer or not clapping. But, I also realize that I'm likely projecting my feelings towards others actions.

  There really is no way to tell because to admit such feelings leaves one open to apostacy accusations and defeats the purpose of "staying in for family".

  I do believe that the average JWs level of devotion is a pale comparison to what it used to be. And ultimately they'll need to accept that or change their model.
• 
  44

  DC 2010 Release - The Origin of Life and its many misquotes

  by Designer Stubble in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  looking up all the references is a lot of work - one of the reasons nobody normally verifies these, but trust the writers.

  as you will see, the writers are banking on this, but it is not a good thing to trust the wtbts writers.

  please find the bibliography worked out for quotes 38-51, covering the heading "what about human evolution".. interesting is that many quotes are from the [u]preface[/u] of books, where the authors honestly explain the difficulties and assumptions related to evolutionary science.. [b]what about human evolution?[/b].

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doubting Bro

  marking for reference, thanks for the hard work.
• 
  31

  Has anyone here been a 'chairman' for an assembly? Question with regard to the script for introductions

  by ThomasCovenant in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  does anyone know if the chairman's introductions and announcements are completely scripted?

  particularly with the use of adjectives and adverbs when introducing talks and speakers.. 'as we listen intentedly....'.

  'we eagerly look forward to bro so and so's talk'.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doubting Bro

  JWF - Thanks for the update and for the script. Hope things are going well for you too and we really appreciate your postings!
• 
  11

  bethel rooms for rent

  by DaCheech in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there was a letter posted on the congregation bulletin board.. it said that one can plan and put an application to rent brooklyn rooms for up to 3 days?.

  anyone know the details?.

  is contribution necessary?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doubting Bro

  I read that the other day but haven't seen the application for it. I would bet there is a suggested contribution but I'm sure it's far below what a NYC hotel room would go for. I'll see what I can find out.

  My opinion is that those rooms are just sitting vacant so they may as well get a little revenue from them.